Having children is a part of life's journey. All your ancestors had children, or you would not be here. Raising children should be a part of the human experience for all humans, even for those who do not have biological children. (In the village, all children belonged to the village)
My observation is that people who did not take on the raising of children, do not grow up. Older childless women who have focused on their careers are very narcissistic and to be very honest hard to be around. The same can be said for men who do not have strong relationships with their children. Becoming human requires sacrifice. People who never sacrifice for others do not grow up.
I disagree. As an older daughter in a large family I have done more hands-on child care than many biological Mom's I know. Most women's childless journey is long, complicated, and unintentional. My own involved overwork ans sacrifice on behalf of my family of origin, unfortunatel health and a profound lack of resources to support a child. It is so dumb to call childless women narcissistic. I have done way more eldercare than my siblings with kids. I don't know what your sources are, the media or real life?
I know many more mothers who never grew up than non-mothers. It has a lot has to do with privilege.
Christina, lI fully empathize and recognize the childhood situation you are describing. The irony is that not only are John's comments ignorant in the extreme (sure John, there are no narcissistic women who have reproduced, none at all!) but demonstrate exactly the kind of simplistic narrative and fallacy about biological imperative that are causing many women to step back and think twice about starting families (despite the fact that this will somehow cure their penchant for narcissism...)
As usual, this discussion talks about ‘narratives’ and ‘scripts’, and suggests that people ignore those things in order to make clearer choices.
Looking back at my youth, I’m amazed at my own level of narcissism, yet am flabbergasted by the narcissism of today’s youth. This is because of these same narratives, and while Tara can be applauded for shedding some light on them, she lives in the dreamworld where they are just organic things that have naturally evolved.
But narratives and scripts are written. They are deliberate things, created by people with an agenda to manipulate other people - in this case to have the youth become so narcissistic they can’t conceive of a child coming in to take precedence in their lives. And they’ve been immersed in that narcissism their whole lives, thanks to their own shoddy parents. How could they just magically slough that off and become clear-minded? Only by becoming aware of who is writing these narratives for a start, and this is where Tara could actually be of some help. But it takes waking up from that dreamworld.
Having children is a part of life's journey. All your ancestors had children, or you would not be here. Raising children should be a part of the human experience for all humans, even for those who do not have biological children. (In the village, all children belonged to the village)
My observation is that people who did not take on the raising of children, do not grow up. Older childless women who have focused on their careers are very narcissistic and to be very honest hard to be around. The same can be said for men who do not have strong relationships with their children. Becoming human requires sacrifice. People who never sacrifice for others do not grow up.
I disagree. As an older daughter in a large family I have done more hands-on child care than many biological Mom's I know. Most women's childless journey is long, complicated, and unintentional. My own involved overwork ans sacrifice on behalf of my family of origin, unfortunatel health and a profound lack of resources to support a child. It is so dumb to call childless women narcissistic. I have done way more eldercare than my siblings with kids. I don't know what your sources are, the media or real life?
I know many more mothers who never grew up than non-mothers. It has a lot has to do with privilege.
You didn't read my post.
Christina, lI fully empathize and recognize the childhood situation you are describing. The irony is that not only are John's comments ignorant in the extreme (sure John, there are no narcissistic women who have reproduced, none at all!) but demonstrate exactly the kind of simplistic narrative and fallacy about biological imperative that are causing many women to step back and think twice about starting families (despite the fact that this will somehow cure their penchant for narcissism...)
My sympathies to your wife John, but please carry on with your self-righteous certitude.
As usual, this discussion talks about ‘narratives’ and ‘scripts’, and suggests that people ignore those things in order to make clearer choices.
Looking back at my youth, I’m amazed at my own level of narcissism, yet am flabbergasted by the narcissism of today’s youth. This is because of these same narratives, and while Tara can be applauded for shedding some light on them, she lives in the dreamworld where they are just organic things that have naturally evolved.
But narratives and scripts are written. They are deliberate things, created by people with an agenda to manipulate other people - in this case to have the youth become so narcissistic they can’t conceive of a child coming in to take precedence in their lives. And they’ve been immersed in that narcissism their whole lives, thanks to their own shoddy parents. How could they just magically slough that off and become clear-minded? Only by becoming aware of who is writing these narratives for a start, and this is where Tara could actually be of some help. But it takes waking up from that dreamworld.
Well when your breeders become mouthy, neurotic, fatsos, it's bound to happen.