Transcript: Joanna Williams

An interview with the British columnist and author

On Monday night, American legislation to ban transgender athletes from women’s and girls’ sports in schools was blocked in the Senate. The topic was a sleeper issue in the American election, with polling showing public support for sports participation based on biological sex. This week, in an episode recorded ahead of the Senate vote, we ask why some feminists have backed Trump, in conversation with a British author and columnist who argues Trump has actually done much to advance women’s rights.

Joanna Williams is a columnist for Spiked magazine, and the author of How Woke Won. Joanna Williams returns to the podcast, this week on Lean Out.

This is an edited transcript for paid subscribers. You can listen to the episode here.

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TH: A Lean Out listener forwarded me one of your recent Substack column, “Donald Trump, Feminist Icon?” I read the title as being a little tongue-in-cheek, but I thought it was such a good one to discuss, for a number of reasons. So, bear with me for a moment on this long question. In Canada, there is next to no coverage of what we would call gender-critical feminists, or their arguments. I fear the media is doing the country a disservice, based on emails I have gotten from the public, and a number of off-the-record conversations I've had with friends and family and neighbours and acquaintances, and even sometimes fellow journalists. I suspect that the gender issue will be a sleeper issue in our next election, in much the same way as it was a sleeper issue in the recent American presidential election. I personally have spoken to hardcore Democrats, who are feminists, who voted for Trump over the gender issue. And we saw female podcasters like Bridget Phetasy, who has also been on this podcast, endorse Trump. Broadcaster Megyn Kelly, whose show I've been on, previously disliked Trump and then went on to describe herself as a single issue voter and support him in the election. So, let's dig into your column. You start by describing the mood among women in the last Trump election, the Women's March, the hats. You write that “in his second inaugural address last night, Trump did more for women’s rights than all of these cutesy hat-knitters put together.” For people who are new to this conversation, Trump is someone who has had something like 26 public allegations of sexual misconduct. A New York jury in a civil case found him liable for sexual abuse. He made that famous comment about grabbing women by the … I won't say the word. How is it possible to view him as a champion of women's rights?