As I dentist (now retired) who worked first in the UK before coming to the Canada, I have a great deal of experience with nationalized dental care. I can tell you with certainty and from experience that of all the treatment options available for any given condition, the least expensive option is always the one the government will pay for, which is also the one with the worst long term outcome. Private dental insurance in Canada is the reason why the standard of care in Canada is among the highest in the world. It was a great treat for me to come here and offer the best treatment plans in terms of long term outcomes, and deliver them because private insurance plans (actuaries, actually) understand the economy of providing the best treatment (including preventive care) as opposed to the least expensive.
It's akin, really, to the Canadian 'health care' system, which offers decent emergent care, but really specializes in offering wait lists- even to find a family doctor. It fails quite miserably at most things in between including delivering, or even offering, preventive/ prophylactic health care. Our system is neither about 'health' nor 'care'. I'll contrast it to our experience in the US, with our daughter (who herself is now an Internist and Integrative Medicine specialist in the US). In high school, she suffered a head injury when a boulder fell on her head in a school mountain climbing trip on Vancouver Island. She suffered a myriad of injuries as you might imagine. Our system handled the emergent ones quickly (skull fracture/ brain bleed) but the handling of the long term sequelae was atrocious. For example, when our daughter developed seizures 4 years post-accident, the 'system' sent her to a neurologist specializing in epilepsy, for which we waited 5 months. He, in turn, prescribed repeat EEGs, each of which also mean a requisite wait list. When no aberrant electrical activity was found, she was referred to another neurologist, which also meant another months-long wait, while the condition remained both undiagnosed and untreated. This was followed by more EEGs, also months apart, because of the wait list for 'walking EEGs'. When our daughter was 18 months into undiagnosed, untreated seizures, we were desperate and finally made a call to a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix. We saw the specialist 13 days later at which time she ran all tests in the following 7 days, and delivered a diagnosis and treatment plan. For that visit, our Mayo bill was about 9000 USD- and worth every penny. (The costs of annual or semi annual follow up visits were less than 1000/ ea) .
I can't 'quantify' what the inadequacies of the Canadian system cost my daughter- how does one quantify suffering in a child? Certainly had she been an adult at the time, she'd have lost her driver's license and would have been unable to work for the entire period- the 'cost' of which would have been much more than $9000 USD. I'm betting the circus of specialists and EEGs interrupted by unacceptably long waits over 18 months cost the Canadian tax payer at least $9000 USD- all the while never even delivering a diagnosis, much less treatment.
Ultimately, what is most interesting to me is that our daughter's own experience drove her into a career in medicine. However, once she was in medical school here in Canada, she quickly discovered for herself what an inept system Canada runs in contrast to her ongoing experience at the Mayo. So, she planned her future to be able to deliver prevention focused care in the US, rather than be hampered by the very real limitations of the Canadian system which she says is centered on letting people get ill before enrolling them in the wait list system after the emergent situation is addressed. She now delivers prevention focused care in a group setting of specialists which draw on each other for fulsome, integrated treatment plans delivered expediently and with very high patient satisfaction outcomes (which the group tracks meticulously). When demand for their services outstrips their capacity to deliver care, they expand their group; in fact, several of her classmates and colleagues from residence have since followed her to the US. (This, of course, is a well known trend- which, you'll notice, never reverses; physicians in the US simply do not come to Canada for unsatisfying work in its 'superior' system.)
Yes, I am going on record to say that dental care in Canada will now follow health care's path, and patients will be worse off for it. Time will tell but I'll end with the query- what does the government deliver effectively and efficiently in Canada other than tax collection, debt building , self promotion and narrative engineering (looking at you, CBC) ?
I hear you about the dark side of single payer health care. I have never understood why we cannot have a combination system, with a basic plan that covers all, and the option for faster, easier access if one has the means. However, I would not trade our system, flawed as it is, for the one in the USA. In 2012 I suffered the interesting combination of surgery for colon caner and a car accident two weeks prior to the planned surgery. I was a bed blocker, ended up in hospital for four weeks, three surgeries. In the USA that would have been disastrous. We would have lost everything.
A basic national dental plan is rather nice. I don’t know the details of the pharma plan, but I fear Big Pharma is licking its chops.
As I dentist (now retired) who worked first in the UK before coming to the Canada, I have a great deal of experience with nationalized dental care. I can tell you with certainty and from experience that of all the treatment options available for any given condition, the least expensive option is always the one the government will pay for, which is also the one with the worst long term outcome. Private dental insurance in Canada is the reason why the standard of care in Canada is among the highest in the world. It was a great treat for me to come here and offer the best treatment plans in terms of long term outcomes, and deliver them because private insurance plans (actuaries, actually) understand the economy of providing the best treatment (including preventive care) as opposed to the least expensive.
It's akin, really, to the Canadian 'health care' system, which offers decent emergent care, but really specializes in offering wait lists- even to find a family doctor. It fails quite miserably at most things in between including delivering, or even offering, preventive/ prophylactic health care. Our system is neither about 'health' nor 'care'. I'll contrast it to our experience in the US, with our daughter (who herself is now an Internist and Integrative Medicine specialist in the US). In high school, she suffered a head injury when a boulder fell on her head in a school mountain climbing trip on Vancouver Island. She suffered a myriad of injuries as you might imagine. Our system handled the emergent ones quickly (skull fracture/ brain bleed) but the handling of the long term sequelae was atrocious. For example, when our daughter developed seizures 4 years post-accident, the 'system' sent her to a neurologist specializing in epilepsy, for which we waited 5 months. He, in turn, prescribed repeat EEGs, each of which also mean a requisite wait list. When no aberrant electrical activity was found, she was referred to another neurologist, which also meant another months-long wait, while the condition remained both undiagnosed and untreated. This was followed by more EEGs, also months apart, because of the wait list for 'walking EEGs'. When our daughter was 18 months into undiagnosed, untreated seizures, we were desperate and finally made a call to a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix. We saw the specialist 13 days later at which time she ran all tests in the following 7 days, and delivered a diagnosis and treatment plan. For that visit, our Mayo bill was about 9000 USD- and worth every penny. (The costs of annual or semi annual follow up visits were less than 1000/ ea) .
I can't 'quantify' what the inadequacies of the Canadian system cost my daughter- how does one quantify suffering in a child? Certainly had she been an adult at the time, she'd have lost her driver's license and would have been unable to work for the entire period- the 'cost' of which would have been much more than $9000 USD. I'm betting the circus of specialists and EEGs interrupted by unacceptably long waits over 18 months cost the Canadian tax payer at least $9000 USD- all the while never even delivering a diagnosis, much less treatment.
Ultimately, what is most interesting to me is that our daughter's own experience drove her into a career in medicine. However, once she was in medical school here in Canada, she quickly discovered for herself what an inept system Canada runs in contrast to her ongoing experience at the Mayo. So, she planned her future to be able to deliver prevention focused care in the US, rather than be hampered by the very real limitations of the Canadian system which she says is centered on letting people get ill before enrolling them in the wait list system after the emergent situation is addressed. She now delivers prevention focused care in a group setting of specialists which draw on each other for fulsome, integrated treatment plans delivered expediently and with very high patient satisfaction outcomes (which the group tracks meticulously). When demand for their services outstrips their capacity to deliver care, they expand their group; in fact, several of her classmates and colleagues from residence have since followed her to the US. (This, of course, is a well known trend- which, you'll notice, never reverses; physicians in the US simply do not come to Canada for unsatisfying work in its 'superior' system.)
Yes, I am going on record to say that dental care in Canada will now follow health care's path, and patients will be worse off for it. Time will tell but I'll end with the query- what does the government deliver effectively and efficiently in Canada other than tax collection, debt building , self promotion and narrative engineering (looking at you, CBC) ?
I hear you about the dark side of single payer health care. I have never understood why we cannot have a combination system, with a basic plan that covers all, and the option for faster, easier access if one has the means. However, I would not trade our system, flawed as it is, for the one in the USA. In 2012 I suffered the interesting combination of surgery for colon caner and a car accident two weeks prior to the planned surgery. I was a bed blocker, ended up in hospital for four weeks, three surgeries. In the USA that would have been disastrous. We would have lost everything.
Yes, but I wouldn't trade freedom (the right to dissent without being persecuted) for a dental plan.
Were we given a choice? Neither would I. Just trying to see if there are any light points.